What caused the financial crisis?


#41

Yes,to call a spade a spade is definitely my tactic,you won nothing.

The problem is that most capitalism is ‘crony capitalism’.

If business people can team up to manipulate the markets then they will. It makes money for them, and that is the point. If capitalists can team up to make a State to enforce laws that benefit them, then they will. If capitalists can team up to take over the State to enforce laws that benefit them then they will. They will call these laws and these power structures ‘free markets’, or say they are essential to the functioning of free markets.

In a society in which profit is the prime good, then the wealthy become the epitome of virtue and talent. They are by definition the good and worthy people. They make sure that their kin inherent the wealth, and make a ruling class with a State to support them, and make sure that even more of the social wealth goes to them. That is basically the history of the last couple of hundred years with a short interlude after the second world war.

In capitalism, wealth eventually comes to control the means of communication, the means of learning and the modes of thought, and the means of violence and law enforcement. Wealth makes sure it cannot be attacked. The wealthy elites may try and deflect attention from their power, by paying people to attack other groups as elites, but generally these other ‘elites’ are not that powerful to begin with - they don’t have that much wealth.

The system of free markets makes plutocracy. This always happens, and the State grows to maintain the systems of wealth and oppression.

Indeed people/politicians who talk a lot about free markets do these things all the time - this is what is called neoliberalism and has been working quite well for the wealthy for the last 40 years.


#42

And that is why you remove the state. You can’t have free markets with the government choosing winners and losers You can’t have fair competition if laws are made to make it impossible for you to compete

And more proof that the problem is the state. Why don’t you Bernie types get that. The government is corrupt so we need more government!

I think you understand the concept of a free market like you understand Capitalism. Not at all. NAFTA, whether you are talking about 1.0 or 2.0 is not a free trade agreement. The new one is over 1000 pages. A real free trade agreement would be two sentences. Government Double Speak is not new and is present in just about every title of every bill. The Patriot Act is not Patriotic, No child left behind, left all the children behind, The Affordable Care Act made health care more expensive.


#43

I see from interacting with you that Libertarians like yourself have an idealist conception of human beings that has nothing to do with the historical and material reality of the actual world. They live in this manichean universe where individual action and the free market is the source of everything that is good and collective action and the state is the source of everything that is evil .

When capitalists use the state apparatus to corner markets or get sole source contracts, it is always the state’s wrong doing. In their minds, capitalists are the paragons of a free society. Their actions, unimpeded by the state, will produce nothing but pure freedom. Conversely, the state produces tyranny. It’s not the capitalists’ fault that the state interferes with the free market and introduces cronyism.

Since libertarians see the state as a distorting influence on the free market, they brush aside cronyism as an aspect of a tyrannical freedom-killing state, not an inevitable aspect of capitalism. This is all very plausible if you know precisely nothing about the history of capitalism. The state and capitalism are two sides of the same coin. Capitalism is a form of social organization that cannot exist without a state. It never has and it never will. Capitalists will always and inevitably use the state to bolster profits through cronyism simply because they can. Indeed, they must. If capitalist (A) doesn’t participate in cronyism and capitalist (B) does, then capitalist (A) will be at a competitive disadvantage.


#44

Not if, when. I think bitcoin will prob sell off as a knee jerk risk off reaction and then as people realise Bitcoin is an awesome safe haven during crises, it will start to go crazy!


#45

Funny, right after you claim not using the tactic, you use the tactic. It is laughable.

That is corporatism. A capitalists just wants the state to get out of the way. There is yet to be a natural monopoly without the state. These are not capitalists. But keep pushing you idiotic fallacies.

Again, not capitalism but you just can’t see that because you have no clue what Capitalism is about so keep attacking your straw man. Capitalism can exist without the state. It can only exist without the state. When the state gets involved, it is no longer Capitalism. But your neo marxism can not see that because you need an enemy. You need a fake enemy to push your authoritarian bullshit, just like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Mao, and the long list of evil socialists that keep getting power because you can’t understand the state is the enemy, or you do understand it but think you will be one of the elite that does not get effected.\


#46

He is not even forming his own arguments, all of his responses to you in this thread are copy and pasted from ask quora :rofl:

https://www.quora.com/Can-the-libertarian-concept-of-small-government-eliminate-crony-capitalism

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-libertarians-see-that-crony-capitalism-is-an-inevitable-aspect-of-capitalism


#47

Thanks Lance, that is awesome!


#48

Could not be bothered to write out a long response only to get “you don’t understand Capitalism” repeated no matter what. Copypasta is the next best idea.

Have at it Pirlo,defender of the Austrian School of Ideology: http://world.std.com/~mhuben/austrian.html

or


#49

Could have just looked at the top answer in the thread and got a response to your silly straw man. But, all Libertarians believe what you claim they believe except Theil, that libertarian is different somehow.

So, yes, Libertarians see that crony capitalism is a feature of the system, but one that is brought about by the Government being able to meddle with the economy, not by the economy meddling with itself. Yes, the Government is made up of people who are generally beneficiaries of that meddling and often associated with the people who directly benefit from the crony capitalism, but it is the power to meddle that is the root.


#50

Please provide an example of capitalism without cronyism.


#51

Can I just copy and paste an answer from someone else? Like everything you share, complete garbage and is refuted in the comments on the same page.


#52

You have to go back to prior to 1913 when all the rules of Capitalism were destroyed with the creation of the FED and the income tax.


#53

Yeah,I figured you would say that when there is so much solid refutation of your world view at one link.


#54

So before the FED in the US we had capitalism without cronyism? Give an example.


#55

You could try to read the garbage you post. The guy is destroyed in the comments on his own thread.

You are too far gone to be taught anything. You worldview is upside down and backwards. You attack things you do not understand, do not comprehend. You make up lies about libertarians and who knows what else while promoting an ideology responsible for the deaths of millions in the last century. Just an authoritarian that wants the government to coddle him because he could never succeed without coercion.

http://www.ultimorecurso.org.ar/drupi/files/Adam%20Smith%20'The%20Wealth%20of%20Nations'.pdf


#56

Ever hear of Henry Ford?


#57

Complete nonsense,you like pulling things from your ass I see.

You love to throw out baseless assumptions,must make you feel good to do so. By the waywhat do you think of Anti-trust laws?


#58

You are a socialists. Responsible for millions of deaths in the 20th century and already on a good pace for the 21st.

Baseless assumptions? Like you do to Libertarians and Theists and anyone that does not see your fucked up worldview?


#59

How many are Christians responsible for? Couple hundred? How about Republicans and Democrats,30 or 40?


#60

It is not even close. Please now you are just making a fool of yourself.