"DRUMPF!" (Trump) Thread

trump

#1012

Nah they’re still playing snakes and ladders :persevere:


#1013

He thinks Marx is valid. Marx was showed to be invalid in the 1920s, the fact that anyone takes Marx seriously shows they don’t understand human beings or basic economics. He also doesn’t seem to understand the difference between capitalism and cronynomics. I appreciate that he is anti-war. The disappearance of the anti-war left after Obama was mind boggling to me; but Hedges stayed consistent and anti-Obama. I have also heard from people that don’t agree with most of what Hedges says that “War Is a Force that Gives Us Meaning” is a fantastic book but I have not read it.

Socialism in any form whether it’s Democratic-Socialism, Libertarian Socialsim, Maxists Communism, Marxism–Leninism, etc are all morally bankrupt ideas that always lead to tyranny. And please don’t bring up Nordic capitalism / social democracy as an example. At the core of the Nordic model is a is a high degree of private property rights.


#1014

How about if Trump gets elected to another public office?

Socialism in any form whether it’s Democratic-Socialism, Libertarian Socialsim, Maxists Communism, Marxism–Leninism, etc are all morally bankrupt ideas that always lead to tyranny.

I asked “You say he has no idea how to help the poor, you do?”

You have nothing to propose in lieu of what he said,just a critique of what he proposed as a solution and more labeling and then attacking the label. Nothing productive in that. Completely reactionary

He also doesn’t seem to understand the difference between capitalism and cronynomics.

What part of what he wrote indicates that?


#1015

Yes, Capitalism and Charity. It’s worked wonders for the world. The only thing stopping it is government.

I’ll tell you in 21/2 more years. If we are dumb enough to elect someone that is a Socialist then the country is lost . There has already been an increase of renunciation of citizenship. Most with pride won’t accept it and will move to friendlier nations to business which will lead to an enormous lost of “free” money and US citizens will end up on bread and deodorant lines.

My statement was completely from his past interviews and articles. He is a Marxist and for me that means you shouldn’t be listened to on matters of government and economics.


#1016

Yes, Capitalism and Charity. It’s worked wonders for the world.

Capitalism has also brought us human trafficking,slavery,sweatshops and the largest income equality in history,not to mention that he proposed specific ideas and you propose an ideology,very vague.

If we are dumb enough to elect someone that is a Socialist then the country is lost .

You are obsessed with labels and not substance,it’s a mental disorder that afflicts too many people. Incompetent,corrupt,ego maniacal Trump is cool but look out for the evil socialists!

He is a Marxist and for me that means you shouldn’t be listened to on matters of government and economics.

The mis-labeling and subsequent obsession with the label is blinding you to some profound writing.


#1017

We do not have human trafficking or slavery because of Capitalism. The only way you could become a slave under a truly Capitalist system would be voluntarily. If your only other choice to feed your family is prostitution, sweat shops are not so bad. Income inequality is just a ploy of the left. I make 10/hr and you make 20/hr. We both get a 100% raise. OMG, look at the gap increase? Both parties are richer.

Yeah, you have an unhealthy obsession with a man and think Socialism is alright and I have the mental disorder.

He has called himself a Marxist. He quotes Marx often, he even quoted Marx in the article.

I believed in Socialism once, I believed that everyone should have the same house, same car, make the same money because that would be “fair”. Then I turned 8.


#1019

We do not have human trafficking or slavery because of Capitalism.

The Clear Connection Between Slavery And American Capitalism

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2017/05/03/the-clear-connection-between-slavery-and-american-capitalism/

Income inequality is just a ploy of the left. I make 10/hr and you make 20/hr. We both get a 100% raise. OMG, look at the gap increase? Both parties are richer.

Yeah, you have an unhealthy obsession with a man and think Socialism is alright and I have the mental disorder.

I have an obsession with pointing out hypocritical incompetent idiocy masquerading as leadership,no matter in whom it manifests itself. You are only concerned with labeling and then attacking labels,offering vague ideologies as a solution to a vast array of issues.

I believed in Socialism once, I believed that everyone should have the same house, same car, make the same money because that would be “fair”. Then I turned 8.

You actually don’t know what socialism is if that’s what you believe.Nowhere in leftist thought can a principle of equal pay or everyone having the same things be found.

“Socialism” is merely the ownership of the means of production by the government rather than private enterprise, and it is so common today that few notice it as such. In Colonial America, almost everything except the military was provided by private enterprise, and it didn’t work very well. Fire protection, for example, was ostensibly the province of private fire departments, but these often showed up at fires ready to fight with other departments for the privilege of fighting the fire, all while the fire consumed the structure. There was minimal police protection, no public education, and on and on.

Today we publicly finance libraries, schools, roads, fire departments, police departments, basic emergency health care, public parks, and often public utilities as well. Our banking system is heavily regulated, as are pharmaceuticals, the legal profession, the medical profession, and urban building codes, all of which are semi-socialistic, in the sense that while the government doesn’t always provide them, it’s a prominent partner. And of course there are the safety net programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, and unemployment benefits.

It’s often bitterly maintained by critics that socialism “doesn’t work” but they rarely acknowledge that its polar opposite, a complete absence of any sort of regulation or safety net, doesn’t work either. The reason why we have so many socialistic and semi-socialistic systems is due to our experience with their absence, which caused tremendous suffering in its day. Indeed, there is little indication that being more socialistic has much of a negative impact on economic health or growth.


#1020

American Capitalism isn’t even remotely Capitalism.

http://press.uchicago.edu/books/excerpt/2011/hayek_constitution.html

I know what Socialism is. I have read the Communist Manifesto, Capital, and The Marx-Engels Reader. If you really want to continue this conversation, then you read Socialism and Human Action and we can start a thread in 3 months. You may want to read Human Action twice.

You claim I don’;t know Socialism, but I know you have no idea what Capitalism is and neither does Brink Lindsey.


#1021

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#1022

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#1023

We do not do any of these things very well and certainly can be done better. The fire department in my town is voluntary.

We will probably never come to a conclustion. I find most of what you listed to be disgusting to be honest. I have my thought out, researched reasons why I think Democracy and Socialism are really bad ideas that should go away. It doesn’t matter much to me if you agree, as long as you let me opt out and keep my property. I do not want government owning the means of production. I also think government should not exist or should be so small, you could barely see it.


#1024


#1025

Looks like Trump and Kim have signed a document committing to ‘work to complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula’. Initial headlines seem positive. Even CNN didn’t twist it. Yet.


#1026

Yep looks very encouraging so far. The media are going to have a tough time with this because it doesn’t fit their narrative. They like to paint things as simple good against evil and depending which side you are on depends how you see it. The fact that Trump can do good, be a peacemaker and be a criminal at the same time will stump a lot of people. It is simply a function of being human there is good and bad in all of us!


#1027

Leftists are perhaps the most diverse political spectrum, ranging from anarcho-syndicalists to Marxist-Leninist-Maoists and everything in between, and to cast an immediate stigma and preconceived judgement upon all of them is frivolous and sectarian to say the least. It is so incredibly diverse that it is one of the far left’s greatest weaknesses, as inner conflict has consistently plagued leftist movements worldwide.

It doesn’t matter much to me if you agree, as long as you let me opt out and keep my property. I do not want government owning the means of production.

A social democracy is an alleged form of ethical capitalism in which the flaws of capitalism are acknowledged but supplemented by a generous state which supports its citizens with such things as better pay, social conditions, representation, rights, etc. but maintains a system of private ownership of production. This is substantially different from a socialist or communist state, in which the workers control production and there would be no need for forceful redistribution of wealth and artificial assistance to the proletariat.

I also think government should not exist or should be so small, you could barely see it.

Give an example of a place where this is working now or any from history.


#1028

You are very nearly describing China!


#1029

Norway would be a great example,

China is a Communist country.

looking at China.

It has a single political party that contests the elctions and has been ruling for many years.

  1. People dont have the freedom of speech and expression. People are pounded heavily for any breach. Look for Tiannemen Sqaure Protests in China.Even Google searches dont show results of Chinese oppression in China by the government .
    So China, is far from a Social democracy.

#1030

I think they used to be but aren’t anymore more Socialist Capitalist. The workers no longer own the means of production, more of China’s GDP comes from private enterprise. There is an argument that China is more capitalist than the US as China spends a smaller percentage of GDP on Government than the US!!!


#1031

Celtic Ireland, Medieval Iceland, Pre-colonial Pennsylvania, The not so wild West.

But the show me where x works is the statist equivalent of “who will pick the cotton”. Conservatives and Progressives alike are incapable to even imagine actual progress.

Maybe government could work if we followed Jefferson’s advice, but we don’t and it doesn’t.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure” - Jefferson


#1032