"DRUMPF!" (Trump) Thread

trump

#406

Definition of a cool cat! Love it! :sunglasses::muscle:


#407


#408

viIWtLnLFCP-MKCGED8Ve899LC9zpb3XTzwtHNGgIRU


#409

Latino guy makes trump song 2015

Same guy getting banned from every platform 2018

he never uses curse words, he is just semi red pilled - this is just one example of ideological banning / deplatforming

millions of people are now shadowbanned / IP banned from twitter / facebook

these platforms must die


#410

I am a little confused. Are you American, living in the UK? Or from the UK?

I’ve read all your posts and I’m trying to piece together what facts you are using to label Trump as a criminal?

You don’t owe me any explanations if you don’t care to share, but after reading this thread it left me curious, because you repeat it several times, but I’ve read nothing that you’ve said that actually backs it up.


#411

MAGA!!! yoooooooooooo we’re going to da sun.


#412

trump-denigrate


#413


#414

Just in case you forget…

MAGA!


#415

Lol nice meme! Typical ‘liberal’ logic. I think that meme was a libtrap tbh.

It reads like this - “I’m so above it that I won’t hate on people that support trump but I just hate people that support trump”


#416

deep state and media are the same thing


#417

#418

You seruously need to go outside. I am speaking from experience. I did something very similar when President Obama turned out to be the opposite of Senator Obama. I didn’t win anyone over and it was just extremely unhealthy.

We should listen to Spooner and remove the Federal Government completely.

“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist.”


#419

Trump is going to get rid of the regime, bank on it… they hijacked Iran, took American’s hostage, and have been regressive clowns who chant about death to the Jews and death to America for the last 40 years.

Its over. Trump, the peacemaker.


#420

Apologies but this is going to be long!!!

Little bit of background on me (not too much as I am not looking to be socially engineered)!

American by birth (I have dual nationality) my father was a British electronics engineer working on the Mariner Probes and the Apollo Missions. Mother was a UK judge and my older brother works for UK services specialism in Anti-Terrorism. I currently live in London but have lived all over the world including South Korea, China, Singapore, Czech Republic, Brazil and the US (Houston and Seattle mainly). I currently work in Technology with large organisations advising boards particularly on Cyber Security, Big Data, Customer Behavior and Artificial Intelligence. I have degrees in Computer Science and Theology! I am not a lawyer or any type of law enforcement expert so these are my own views based on my research and conversations with people who know about some of this stuff.

Unfortunately this is not any easy Columbo like set of crimes where we can point at three things and go there it is.

Remember what Mueller is investigating is connections between the Russian government and the Trump campaign. Mueller has already indicted 13 Russian entities so he is clear that there was an attempt by Russian to interfere in the 2016 elections.

Regarding Trump firstly Collusion is the wrong word it has no real meaning in a legal sense. So in a way Trump is right when he says no collusion has been found because actually no one is really looking for that apart from the media. The word that will be used is Conspiracy. The problem we have with the case is that it is extremely complex and wide ranging (there are at least 300 people that will be important to the case - not all criminally). This is why it will take a while for Mueller to pull together a bullet proof case that he can take to the Deputy AG. This in turn will cause me a problem to outline to you what are the facts that make me think Trump is a criminal but I will have a go accepting that what I post will have holes and is by no means complete.

The reason I am interested in this is that I do think Trump will be impeached and indicted. This will come as a surprise to many and how do we as a nation deal with it and pick ourselves up in the aftermath of what I consider will be one of the biggest scandals of all time. The republican party will be a shell of what it used to be. People may well turn to the democrats but they have no answers and will take the country in the wrong direction again. If this is true we will be in crisis and potentiality at the mercy of a kind of liberalism no one wants to see. I have a bit of a prepper mentality but too often we focus on the practical aspects of food, shelter etc and don’t prepare our minds! We need to understand and be prepared. Of course I could be completely mistaken, off my head, and we can just carry on when this all disappears!

I think the crimes that Trump has committed will include Obstruction of Justice, Aiding and Abetting Computer Crimes, Conspiracy to Commit Fraud, Witness Tampering, Perjury, Money Laundering and possibly Treason (although I think this last one is unlikely as I think we have to be at war for it to apply)! - Oh and the Logan Act. If you don’t believe that these are the crimes being investigated then look at the Trump leaked questions that Mueller wants to ask and then tell me that these aren’t the crimes being alluded to in the questions (link further down).

My essential premise is that Trump has traded Russian sanctions for election assistance and business deals.

Something to bear in mind is that much of what Trump says publicly is blatantly false designed to either promote his brand or protect it. He doesn’t need to lie but does so to cover things up. I could site hundreds of examples of this. (It doesn’t mean everything is false he has been right on the money about certain things). One of the biggest he has told is in relation to Russia.

Trump has said he has “nothing to do with Russia - No deals, No loans, No nothing!” We know that is false as by his own words in Art of the Deal he talks about working with Soviet government officials to build a hotel in Moscow. He has repeatedly tried to land deals in Russia. He has hosted the Miss Universe contest in Moscow - we will come back to that later. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/347191326112112640 He also talked about the Trump Tower Moscow deal in a deposition in 2007 https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2430267/trumps-lawsuit-on-net-worth.pdf Trump has registered Trademarks in Russia and many of the condos/offices in Trump Tower are owned/occupied by Russians including Felix Sater who worked for the Trump Org and was also involved in Trump Tower Moscow. (Felix Sater is one of those people that Trump says he doesn’t know very well - a typical Trump response when he tries to distance himself from people that could put him in jeopardy!) Sater was also Managing Director of the Bayrock Group which help finance the Trump Org in the early 2000’s when it was in financial difficulty. Trump even launched his Trump Vodka in Moscow and he had a deal to film a reality tv show in Russia centred around MMA staring Russia fighter Fedor Emelianenko.

Don Jnr even said “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets… we see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.” https://www.eturbonews.com/9788/executive-talk-donald-trump-jr-bullish-russia-and-few-emerging-ma
Eric Trump said " We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.”

The point of this is the idea that Trump has nothing to do with Russia is a joke Trumps links to Russia are very visible and go back a long way.
This video makes it very clear (yes it is MSNBC but all the words are Trumps in the first minute and I am sure we could go to all the source videos to verify!)

So why try and hide it? Also note that Trump despite his promises has not released his tax returns which would have cleared up exactly what his relationships with Russia consisted of.

So Trump has extensive links to Russia regardless of the lies he told. Now lets look at a timeline of important events in the case.

2012 Nov 19 - Trump registers MAGA Trademark http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn85783371&docId=APP20121122072845#docIndex=31&page=1

2013 June 18 - Trump announces that Miss Universe will take place in Russia

2013 July - Russia’s Internet Research Agency LLC registers with the Russian government as a corporate entity. (Note this is the organization that has been engaged in election interference.

2013 Nov 9 - Miss Universe in Moscow (Trump Attends) - talks around Trump Tower Moscow https://www.rt.com/business/trump-plan-skyscraper-russia-479/ (Project doesn’t get off the ground as Trump doesn’t like elements of the deal)

2014 Jan 22 - Confirmation that Trump told Russians he was running for President before the US Public https://twitter.com/AlferovaYulyaE/status/426103699572678656 Yulya Alferova was an advisor to Russians Minister for Economic Development and also one of the main organizers of the Miss Universe 6 months earlier!!! [and yes she is incredibly hot :smile: ]

2015 June 16 - Trump announces that he is running for President (18 months after telling the Russians!)

2015 Sept - news breaks that DNC may have been hacked

2015 Oct 13 - Letter of Intent signed for Trump Tower Moscow - Organised by Felix Sater and Michael Cohen - again deal falters.

2015 Dec 10 - Michael Flynn travels to Moscow sits next to Putin at a Dinner.

2016 March - Carter Page and George Papadopoulos join the Trump Campaign as a foreign policy advisor.

2016 March 28 - Paul Manafort joins Trump campaign

2016 March 31 - Papadopoulos tells “national Security meeting” that he has links to Russia and can help setup meetings between Trump and Putin - effectively decalring himself to be an agent! Trump, Flynn and Sessions were at the meeting. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf

2016 April 11 - Manafort emails Konstantin Kilimnik who has links to Russian Intelligence

2016 April 26 - Papadopoulos is told by the Russians that they have dirt on Hilary

2016 April 27 - Foreign Policy Speech in DC “I intend to find out. If we can’t make a deal under my administration, a deal that’s great – not good, great – for America, but also good for Russia, then we will quickly walk from the table. It’s as simple as that.” This he said in front of Sergei Kislyak the Russian Ambassador to the US. Papadopoulos helped to write the speech giving a clear indication to the Russians that the Trump team could be favorable to Russia.

2016 May - Papodopoulos tells Australian diplomat in a London Wine Bar that the Russians have thousands of emails that would embarrass Clinton which had been stolen. [THIS IS THE KEY EVENT THAT AUSTRALIAN INTELLIGENCE PASSED BACK TO THE FBI AND LED TO THE INVESTIGATIONS]

2016 June 9 - Meeting with Russians in Trump Tower - Attending was Manafort, Don Jnr, Kushner, (maybe Trump himself he was in the building) - the meeting was principally about gaining dirt on Clinton.

2016 June 21 - Guccifer posts stolen DNC documents - (claims to be Romainian but later proven to be a Russian intelligence operative)

2016 July - FBI open probe into Russia’s hacking attempts

2016 July 5 - Steele shares first reports with FBI

2016 July 7 - Carter Page goes to Moscow

2016 July 18 - Changes are made to the GOP platform in relation to the language around Russia and Ukraine.

2016 July 20 - Sessions meets with Ambassador Kislyak at an RNC event.

2016 July 22 - Wikileaks start publishing emails hacked from the DNC

2016 July 27 - Trump tells Russia to hack Hillary’s emails " “I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing…I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

2016 August 17 - Trump starts receiving security briefings ahead of election - given a briefing by FBI on Russian hacking - at this point despite what they knew before as of this date any further involvement with Russia in Hilary dirt would a crime - this was an ongoing cyber-attack against the US thousands of felonies to which the Trump team could be accessories. [Note: also there is no indication that the Trump team disclose any of their awareness about the Clinton hacking to the FBI.]

2016 Sept 8 - sessions has a meeting with Kislyak which he later doesn’t disclose when answering to congress. Trump also speaks with Larry King on Russia Today and suggests (despite his security briefings) that Russia is probably not interfering “I think maybe the Democrats are putting that out. Who knows, but I think it’s pretty unlikely,”

2016 Oct 9 - Presidential Debate: Clinton says Trump knows what is going on and that the intelligence community has sad that the Kremlin is directing attacks. Trumps response " “She doesn’t know if it’s the Russians doing the hacking, Maybe there is no hacking. But they always blame Russia. And the reason they blame Russia because they think they’re trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know nothing about Russia. I know — I know about Russia, but I know nothing about the inner workings of Russia. I don’t deal there. I have no businesses there. I have no loans from Russia.”

2016 Oct 10 - Trump at his rally says “I love Wikileaks”

2016 Oct - Kushner gets a $285M loan from Deutsche Bank. The bank had to pay a $425M fine for laundering money out of Russia https://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press/pr1701301.htm

2016 Nov 8 - Trump wins the election to become POTUS

2016 Nov 10 - Obama warns Trump against hiring Michael Flynn

2016 Nov 18 - Trump makes Michael Flynn National Security Advisor

2016 Nov 28 - Trump interviews with Time and says “I don’t believe they interfered."

2016 Dec 9 - McCain gives Steele dossier to Comey

2016 Dec 12 - Carter Page goes to Moscow again where he meets executives from Rosneft.

2016 Dec 28 - Obama signs EO for sanctions against Russia for election interference. Kislyak contacts Flynn https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download

2016 Dec 30 - Putin says he will not retaliate against US expulsions and sanctions.

2017 Jan 6 - Trump releases statement saying Russian hacking had no effect on the outcome of the election. https://twitter.com/RT_America/status/817458505967923200/photo/1?tfw_creator=RT_com&tfw_site=RT_com&ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fusa%2F372861-trump-intel-officials-hacking%2F

2017 Jan 10 - Session at a Senate Committe hearings says during the campaign "I did not have communications with the Russians.”

2017 Jan 11 - Buzzfeed publishes the Steele Dossier https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.etrbB828vR#.utw7vJOJYj
Steele Dosier https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

2017 Jan 26 - Yates warns Trump about Flynn and that he might be compromised

2017 Jan 27 - Papadopoulos interviewed by the FBI

2017 Jan 30 - Trump fires Yates

2017 Feb 13 - Flynn resigns amid allegations that he did discuss US sanctions with Kislyak.

2017 Feb 14 Trump asks Comey to drop the investigation into Flynn

2017 March 2 - revealed that Sessions did speak to Kislyak during the campaign and he then announces he will recuse himself from any investigation into Trump/Russia

2017 March 20 - Comey tells the House Select committee “The FBI, as part of our counterintelligence effort, is investigating the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 president election,”

2017 May 9 - Trump fires Comey

2017 May 10 - Trump meets alone in the oval office with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Kislyak. Trump gives classified national security information to them during the meeting. (Note it is his right to do this as he is the president but he didn’t let anyone know and in particular put Israeli operatives at risk.)

2017 May 11 - Trump tells Lester Holt he fired Comey because of the “Russia thing”.

2017 May 17 - Rosenstein appoints Mueller to lead investigation into Russian interference in elections and any links to the Trump campaign.

2017 July 8 - story breaks about the June 2016 meeting with the Russians and Don Jnr at Trump Tower. Trump Jnr issues a statement saying that the meeting was about an adoption program. Later it is revealed that Trump himself dictated this statement to Jnr when he was on airforce one.

2017 July 11 - Don Jnr tweets out his emails regarding the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting ahead of release by the press. They contained statements such as “information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.” “is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
Don Jnr replied “If it is what you say I love it especially later in the summer,” https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/11/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-email-text.html

2017 July 25 - sanctions vote on Russia meddling passed 419-3

2017 July 25 - Manafort’s home is raided by the FBI

2017 August - hand written ledgers listing $12.7M in undisclosed payments to Manafort discovered. Manafort resigns on August 19 replaced by Bannon.

2017 Oct 30 - Manafort and Gates both plead not guilty. Also Papadopoulos guilty plea is unsealed and he is revealed to have been a cooperating witness for some months.

2017 Nov 2 - Cater Page testifies to the House Intelligence Committee talks about his July 2016 visit to Moscow says that Sessions and Clovis were aware of the trip.

2017 Dec 1 - Flynn pleads guilty to lying to the FBI and becomes a cooperating witness.

2018 Feb 16 - Trump lies saying that Russia started their anti-US campaign before he announced he would run. Except as per earlier in the timeline he had already told the Russians (but not the US public) that he was going to run! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/964594780088033282

2018 Feb 16 - Mueller indicts 13 Russians for interfering in the elections.

2018 Feb 23 - Rick Gates changes his plea to guilty and offers to cooperate. https://www.justice.gov/file/1038801/download

I can’t go into detail about what happened in all the contacts between the Trump team and the Russians as this will be long enough as it is the only thing I will note is that everyone initially denied any contacts!!! Then they claimed that they should have contacts as it was normal. There are ton more references I could put into this but it would take a very long time. If I get specific questions I will update.

So what does this tells us?

1. 

Firstly Trump planned his run for president way before he wants people to believe and told the Russians way before the American public. Note also that the hacking started around the same time as his meetings in Russia.
2.
He has business dealings an contacts with the Russians going back decades. They bought his properties and helped with loans to keep his businesses afloat.
3.
He had clandestine conversations with the Russians throughout the Elections despite saying he hadn’t
4.
He sought information from the Russians (dirt on Clinton) to use and change the direction of the Election - it doesn’t matter whether he was successful or not!
5.
He deliberately looked for people with Russian contacts to add to his team Flynn, Page, Papadopoulos, Manafort etc
6.
He made signals to the Russians that he was willing to trade sanctions through his speeches and changes to the GOP platform.
7.
He invites the Russians to hack but then denies it ever happened.
8.
Sessions lied to congress and had to recuse himself.
9.
He carried on his discussions with the Russians even after the FBI informed him about the hacking.
10.
He obstructed justice in firing Comey and also his hypothetical offers of pardons to Flynn etc. (this is also Witnesss Tampering)
11.
He obstructed justice by writing the response to Don Jnr’s meeting with the Russians at Trump Tower. Also the multiple times he has wanted to fire Mueller.
12.
You can be sure that evidence of money laundering will be found by Mueller just like it has with Manafort. He has been on the cusp of this a number of times already with his business dealings
13.
He had Flynn negotiating sanctions when he was not in power. It is this sort of circumstance for why the Logan Act exists you can’t have two governments operating at the same time!
14.
Russia was decisively pro-Trump in its Facebook and Twitter campaigns and they had Wikileaks in their corner also.
15.
The most compelling bit of data for me though is what we don’t see. When you look at the charges against Flynn, Gates and Papadopoulos they are essential relatively minor in relation to making false statements to the FBI (which is a felony). The question for me is what level of information were they able to give up that led to them getting charged for small offences in particular Flynn was able to negotiate getting his son off free (at the moment, although I think part of Mueller’s strategy is to not bring any charges against him unless Flynn stops cooperating) they must have had something substantial to offer against people higher up the food chain. That is the way the negotiations work in mob cases (which is where Mueller has expertise).
16.
Add to this the conversations about whether Manafort, Cohen, Hope etc will flip. People only flip if there is some evidence to flip them for. Also the talk of pardons is strange as it is still an admission of guilt.

Anyway I could go on but this has taken up enough time!!!

All of this is from evidence that is in plain sight. How much more does Mueller have?

A few things we don’t know but I suspect: He may well have paid through Cohen for the dirt on Hillary. The amount of money that Trump paid to Cohen ostensibly to deal with the Stormy Daniels of the world is unnaccounted for. It was well over $1M but only $130k went to the porn star. Where did the rest go?
We don’t know who else is cooperating with Mueller but their deals remain sealed Bannon?
In recent days there has been renewed interest in what happened in Moscow 2013. Trump initially said he was there for a few days. Then he said it was just there and back and he didn’t stay overnight. There is now evidence from flight records that Trump was there at least one night if not two. Why is he lying about it? This is the time frame in which the alleged pee pee action happened!!!

There are many other directions this could go but I think this is enough just know that UAE, Roger Stone, Wikileaks, New York FBI, pressure put on Comey to repoen Clinton investigation, Twitter, Facebook and the NRA will feature prominently in the story too. There is also the question of whether Russia has leverage over Trump (Pee Pee tapes) which is possible but isn’t essential for my view on his relationship with Russia is built around trading sanctions for other favors. I am sure some of you will question the validity of the Steele Dossier so I am putting the transcript for the Testimony that Glen Simpson the founder of Fusion GPS (note that it is Orbis that actually compiled the reports) here for reference https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/3/9/3974a291-ddbe-4525-9ed1-22bab43c05ae/934A3562824CACA7BB4D915E97709D2F.simpson-transcript-redacted.pdf

On the question of obstruction of justice I think this is the clearest case of criminal behavior. The firing of Comey was by Trump’s own admission as a result of the Russia thing. Even in his latest tweet over the weekend https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/993452275648679938 he calls it fighting back which in itself is an admission that he was taking action against the investigation (He can fight back if and when he is facing a jury). Now the counter argument is that Trump has the right to fire whomever he likes which is true, he is the president and does have that right. However, the law is clear that a legal act can be obstruction of justice if taken for corrupt purposes. So he has no legal right to take action with the intent to protect himself.

The issue that I have and anyone else trying to pull all this together is that we do not have access to all the sources such as emails, text messages, call records etc that Mueller undoubtedly does have so there will inevitably be holes in any evidence but based on the questions that the Trump team leak to the press that they believe Mueller wants to ask it is clear that it exists.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/01/muellers-questions-for-trump-read-full-list.html Important to note that the conversations that Mueller and team will have had with Trump’s lawyers from which Trump’s team put this together will have been very carefully planned so as not to tip off to the Trump team the full extent of what they know.

Mueller can’t impeach Trump he would need to provide the evidence to the Deputy AG who would then take to congress. If forced from iffuce and I think it likely then he would face criminal charges. There is an argument that he could face criminal charges without being impeached but I don’t think that likely as the House would want to be seen to be distancing themselves from Trump before he was charge with crimes. As a side note Trump has no intention of ever sitting down with Mueller to answer questions and never did he knows he would be in a world of trouble if he did and his lawyers would never let him. If he did he would lie and then he would be charge with lying under oath which is what got Bill Clinton impeached!

I also don’t think that Don Jnr, Jared and Ivanka are free from all of this!


#421

Nice work! I appreciate the time and effort you put into putting forth your thoughts & facts. Do not underestimate Kabuki Theater and a detailed plan for ‘draining the swamp’. Everything you outlined above is exactly as Trump would hope you see it and believe it. While everyone is distracted with all the nonsense, the real work is being done behind the scenes, in an ethical and judicious manner. One of us is going to be very surprised when the IG report comes out and the Mueller investigation is wrapped up. I don’t believe it will be me. But let’s wait and see. I am happy to accept either. I personally believe we have dodged a major bullet and are heading for some of the best years of all of our lives globally. Worst case scenario, I’m wrong and we’re fucked. But no more so than if Hillary came into power. I am one who believes that Trump was our last chance to turn things around and God willing, with him kept safe, he will. I am certain of it.


#422

That I agree with you on Hillary would have been a nightmare but that is part of the issue there are no good candidates in my view they are all motivated by greed and not service.

So what do you think is going on behind the scenes and how do you think it will play out?


#423

Gotta admit, mostly a lurker here, I’m really enjoying this civil discussion between @Siggy and @spacebuzz


#424

Well I think most people want the best for our country and the world so no reason why we can’t debate in a reasonable way. Better than the insult hurling that often goes on and serves nothing apart from our continuous state of outrage!!

That said Trump is still a criminal :smiley:


#425

I can tell that almost everything you listed has been already factored in for the US anti-communist voters. I bet you did not see Brexit coming living inside the London bubble, either.

  • The Soviet Union was destroyed by the West in the early 1990s. The reward for the Russians was more trading opportunities with the rest of the world. Hence, everything Trump did commercially is legal until he offended the Democrats (a.k.a. the communist party) by an ‘unexpected’ presidential win.

  • The real Soviet collusion started with Bill Clinton, who shipped the American industry wholesale to the Soviet China (where Communism is still enshrined in the constitution). The Washington/Brussels swamp beasts are making their living on top of this collusion. The obnoxious globalist elites, including the UK Labour party leaders (Tony Blair) and EU commissioners (José Manuel Barroso), who were all openly communists during their college time, ‘decided’ that the open border communism is the best way forward for humanity.

  • in 1492, the Catholic peasants from the North Spain finally drove out the Islamic Caliphate that had the capacity to design and build the best palace of the time (e.g. Alhambra). The secret of the islamic defeat was an overly centralised administration. The muslim population living under the PLANTATION had nothing to fight for, while the decentralised catholic villages had all the money and motivation to finish the job.