#B90X - DAY 1 - Let's Begin

b90x

#61

Since I am not a programmer nor do I have in-depth knowledge on what makes computers compute, I may have to read this a time or two more. I have, however, watched a few documentaries that have me at…I almost get it.
I am trying to get my daughter and son in-law involved. They are still at “it’s not real, I don’t get it”


#62

what i learned is that theres a audio book for the white paper :joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yYrYCE4i1c


#63

Here’s what I took away from it:

  1. Satoshi is probably an academic and has published before (such a well written paper)

  2. All attackers are assumed to be male (so that makes it more likely that Satoshi is either from an older generation, or from a culture still using gender biased language)

  3. The double-spend problem has been solved.

  4. It is more profitable to play by the rules, than to try and break them.

The blockchain makes perfect sense as a ledger that can’t be tampered with. As a biologist, I can kind of see it as trying to change the fossil record by going down three meters and planting a different set of bones (changing a block calculation)…but that you’d have to do that across the surface of the entire field you are working with if you wanted everyone to believe that dinosaurs were here 100 years ago.

What I don’t understand at all

What is the problem that blockchain has solved for computer programming that makes so many applications now possible?


#64

Hey Sleuth,

I’m going to try and answer your questions based on my understanding. I don’t know much, but here goes…

Explicit mention is made in the first paragraph about transaction cost, namely that transaction cost is too high under traditional models.

That is a simple aspect, but not the core of blockchain. You could charge zero fees for electronic funds transfer (and recoup the money some other way, like interest or account fees).

In section 2, Satoshi mentions that the first transaction is the most important, not subsequent ones. Perhaps suggesting that replace-by-fee is not worth pursuing.

This is the solution to the double-spending problem. If I buy your car and pay you, you need to be sure that the Bitcoin I send you has not ever been spent before, or at the same time. In this case, if I tried to buy two cars with the same Bitcoin, and transmitted two different chains out to the network, the first transaction to become the majority would - by definition - be considered a true transaction, and the other one rejected.

How the signal is sent out and how you could try to bias a fake result is beyond me.

In secion 4, Satoshi mentions that CPUs can cast votes on the blockchain events. He also refers to these presumed miners as nodes. Maybe he did not foresee the split between the two.

Forking has more to do with two groups agreeing to each honestly perform the calculations required to extend their own versions of the blockchain. They no longer interact. They can exist independently of one another, and they will never reform a single, unified blockchain that has one single history.

With respect to voting, the issue of disagreement then exists within each of these different groups, and each group must distinguish between honest and dishonest mining to validate their own blockchain.

It’s like a country splitting into two. Each now holds their own elections. The majority in each country is elected.

In section 6, Satoshi notes that transaction fees are important to the longevity of Bitcoin. He was not afraid of fees, apparently, but refer to note 1.

The fees are the rewards we pay miners for doing the work that updates the ledger and maintains its integrity. I don’t know what happens once all 21 million Bitcoins are mined. Where will the incentive for miners come from? A simple solution might be to award a 1:1 transfer to a new blockchain with a fresh set of mining rewards available. Not a fork. A new chain altogether.

I do not quite understand how much data Satoshi would be okay with cutting, but in section 7 he implies that blocks can be partially deleted after a period.

I think that you could keep a series of partially overlapping records of the chain, distributed as forks that are mined from a certain point to maintain the integrity of the record and establishing proof of the new first block for the new chain to be extended.

Like who keeps a record of the ever changing internet? If it was important to do so, then there would be incentive to pay someone to keep a true record of that.

In section 10, Satoshi explains Bitcoin’s privacy vulnerability, but offers no solution other than generating a new address for each transaction.

Bitcoin was not an attempt to make transactions private, but to make transactions independent of a central third party and trust. Hiding the details of the transaction is its own separate problem.


#65

Hi. That’s the part of the white paper that took my attention too. I believe that if there is massive adoption and transactions flow on a large number, miners will be doing pretty much well collecting small fees for each transactions.
However if transactions are not so frequent and people use the bitcoin like they use gold, then only big transactions will be worth it because of the high fees… Maybe I am wrong… correct me if it is the case.

I also believe that in the future, governments will adapt to the cryptocurrencies and maybe bitcoin will be a stable and limited asset like gold. Every country would have their own cryptocurrencies and governments would also mine bitcoins transactions so to collect as much as bitcoins as they can so they can pump the value and adoption of their cryptocurrencies based on the amount of bitcoins they will hold and the capacity of maintaining the system working by their hash power… Am I going crazy here…lol :smile:?

Anyway… happy to be part of the community… let’s see together where all this goes and how we can navigate through it on the best way possible.


#66

Maybe one day we will have a Bitcoin Museum with the very first year blockchain transactions rolling on a screen and people taking pictures in front of it. :smile:


#67

Few things I learnt while reading this paper.

  1. Satoshi is a genius and deserves a Turing Award (if he/she ever comes forward)

  2. A wish I read this in 2008

  3. The paradox of his white paper and the level of public trust Satoshi envisioned is made apparent by is annonominity

  4. I suck at math but thank the inclusion of the C code.

  5. If I had a quantum computer id be filthy rich.

  6. The simplicity of this network and the problem Satoshi solved is a stark contrast to the myriad of of other coins/projects that claim they solve 100 problems OR try to solve a problem that doesn’t actually exist.

  7. Charlie Lee is definitely not Satoshi

  8. Didn’t realize @peter wears cut out jocks on his head.

Peace9


#68

Im personally amazed at Satoshi’s vision and the ingenuity in his ability to create such a unique system enabling peer to peer wealth transference based upon complex algorithmic computations in order to keep blocks of hashed transactions secure from those with nefarious intent along with the systems ability for transactions to be made transparent to the public. What i would like to know is what was the catalyst that drove Satoshi to create such a system?


#69

Probably the building up to the 2008 crash and economic developments. Or just luck.


#70

Lol. Yes. I wear underwear on my head. It’s a thing. Didn’t u know?


#71

"As an additional firewall, a new key pair should be used for each transaction to keep them
from being linked to a common owner. Some linking is still unavoidable with multi-input
transactions, which necessarily reveal that their inputs were owned by the same owner. The risk
is that if the owner of a key is revealed, linking could reveal other transactions that belonged to
the same owner."

:wink:


#72

Never have read Satoshi’s white paper… Glad to have done it and also to spend sometime on the bitcoin.org website.
They have some nice introductions in French and this will help me to spread the bitcoin around me here in France.

The simplicity of the paper shows how, great and simple are ideas that can change the world. The base is there, the rest are natural evolutions and all this will be interesting to see. I’ve learned that the mining possible issues were already discussed and I can imagine a lot of transformation heading towards the future of cryptocurrency… This is like industrial revolution or the creation of internet… A entire new world is being born in front of us.

This is the first time in my life that I write so much on a community page. I am always reading a lot of stuff everywhere but I never participate. Happy to be doing it now and will continue doing so…

I’ve completed the 3 steps… For the third one I brought my mother in law (more than 65 years old) to the world of bitcoin and crypto currencies… I new she would love it. But I guess she won’t be able to participate on the Pub because of some technical reasons and also because she only speaks French. Investing in bitcoin nowadays was already a huge step for her.

Looking forward to the next days around the community.

All the best,
oifabio.


#73

I have read Satoshi’s paper a few times.
Everytime I read it, I learn something different.
Decentralisation where you do not need a third party to create trust.
He also pretty much admits that the trust system is backed up and hardened by CPU power.
Timestamping chain of events so that they cannot be tempered.
Also saw some references dates back to 1998 like this one :
http://www.weidai.com/bmoney.txt


#74

The most pure method for preventing natural monopolies that develop through asset market manipulation by market setters that I have ever heard of. Transparent, self ratifying, concensus based incentivised co-operative which grows exponentially stronger in it’s capabilities through the esoteric medium of belief of the adoptee’s. A truthseeker. It will be one of the most revolutionary concepts of value and self actualization ever to have been conceived of. Truly, a self regulating, autonomous masterpiece.

eh…? Did I miss anything? oh yeah… it will destroy this Ponzi scheme rigged global economy and replace it with one where altruistic likeminded individuals can forge their own destiny. a very beautiful technical construction. we might ACTUALLY ACHEIVE global human rights being implemented in my lifetime by collectively using our combined wealth to guide the way we want our own GLOBAL value and culture systems to be created. free from corruption of individuals which constitute a bottlenecked through which all our social and political decisions are filtered into TEAM RED and TEAM BLUE.

Truly, THE gamechanger


#75

If I could have all of the money I spent on beer in the past I could buy a lot of Bitcoin :laughing:


#76

A chain of digital signatures is what my brain can digest easily and i will keep it at that,All banks are taking hard earned money from everday people as if it was normal , it is normal in there lives until they buy there 1st BTC . Who would have thought how powerfull this paper would be 10 years later


#77

I’m in!

Good read, but still confused on things. Feel like I need to let it simmer. It looks like each new node originally got a new coin to encourage people to get on board. I’m guessing that’s not the case anymore. I am curious what is involved in running a node though. Is a node different than running a mining operation?


#78

Wow thx for all this… i think to read… listen to all this only once wont be enough… need to spend more time with all this informations


#79

After reading the whitepaper I actually understand how it works! I had an idea before, but after seeing the profits I made when I invested $400 @$139/BTC, I didn’t care. Now that I am getting more serious about it, it’s good to have a better understanding about how it works and how hackers/attackers have an enormously difficult time stealing coins. It’s awesome that it’s more profitable to just play by the rules, so there’s little incentive to try to undermine the system.


#80

I heard about the theory before readying that document. But reading that document was thrilling. It’s elegant and simple. It is insanely clever. I wish to god I had read this years ago. I would have been all in.